Following is a conversation with a friend on the BRT of Delhi. It was written on April 23, 2008. The lines prefixed with ">" are written by him to which I respond.
--- In .... ..... wrote:> Consider Cost aspects and flexibility of a Bus system. Also, think of global
> warming - rail system running on electricity means inefficiencycreeping in
> at generation stage, transmission stage and conversion to motionstage.
Dear ....,Can you show some comparison of the efficiencies at generation, transmission and conversion stages for the large scale power generation and on board power generation in bus? Let me try empirically. Let me take the last stage first:
Conversion from electrical to Mechanical at the vehicle. This effieciency is usually the efficiency of the motor which is in the range of upper 90s for the std traction motors. There is no such phase in case of most of the non hybrid vehicles with on board generation as the engine is coupled to wheels through transmission.
Taking the second phase transmission: The transmission losses are never high. For a not so efficient utility like UPPCL, the transmission losses for the last FY were 6.0% ie an efficiecy of 94%. This phase is also not there in case of on board generation and the losses through mechancal transmission are negelegible.
Now comes the first stage of generation: Best of the on Boardgeneration engines have an efficiency in the bracket of 25-30% whereas the thermal plants have a bracket of 30-35% and the combinedcycle plants have effiecency of 40-50%. We can take an average generation efficiency at a conservative 35% for delhi as it is fedby Faridabad, Pragati, and Dadri CCPPs apart from other Coal based plants. Another CCPP in Bawana is under progress. CCPP can be termed the cleanest plants generating from fossil fuel and not even onboard generation hybrid mode can compare with them in terms of efficiency and emisions.(I am leaving HYDEL and Nuclear power apart for a while:), ( Delhi gets lot of Hydel and Mumbai and Chennai get decent amount of Nuclear power)
So what we get : efficiency of vehicle driven with gridpower:35x.96x.9=30.24% and above and that for on board IC engine :27.5%
So now is there an argument in favour of on board generation, from efficiency and emission point of view?
> In a democratic country, I hope you realise, there are a lot morepeople
> Walking, Cycling and using buses than those using cars and MTWsand Metro.
> Affordability is a criteria most of us tend to ignore. State has aduty
> towards all its citizens.
Most of the people forget the last line above when they question the profitabilty of Delhi Metro. Well, coming to the topic in hand, I think cycle tracks and good footpaths can well be provided without having to physically segregate the bus lane. We can as well demarcate central lane as the bus lane to address the safey issue of slow moving vehicles who prefer to travel on the leftmost lane. What is the need to restrict precious road space 24x7? I have driven on four laned roads which were made by slightly widening the existing two lane road and then dividing at central verge. Drivers feel suffocated for space while overtaking as they cannot use the vacant road in the opposite lane for overtaking slow moving vehicles. Just an example of dividing already narrow roads.
> If a transport system that caters to less than 2 % of commuterpopulation,
> costs about Rs 11,000 Crores (68 km) and find that the system issparsely
> crowded even during peak hour (I had the experience of travelingduring peak
> hour), what do you call it but a Waste! Most of us who suffer, areso good
> natured that they will say, "let them travel in comfort even if Icannot
> afford it". Financial Success - no way; commuter happiness - whatabout
> those who cannot affor it? - tough luck!
I think you need to visit Delhi and have a ride and witness the current ridership. Speaking of financial success as a parameter for Metro while you spoke of the duty of state towards its citizens is not fair. Ridership of Metro can be further increased by planning adequate feeder services. Ticket price is not an issue in Delhi if people get a comfortable commute. Do you imply that the fare of BRT would be drammatically lower than that of Metro? Or that BRT is being implemented so that pedestrian and NMV tracks can be made? Moreover, it is undemocratic to eat away from existing road space which was democratically open so far for everyone. Instead of adding capacities, the existign capacities have been cramped.
> > Moreover, I am one of the reluctant and compelled car user.
> A functioning BRT would be useful to you.
True I guess. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Though I know that we can never have the kind of road discipline that is required for afunctioning BRT.
> Same is true for the large proportion of commuters using Buses andCycles.
> They too do not deserve to be in misery and risk.
True. But for improving the plight of cylcist we need to build cycletracks, not dedicated bus lanes. And for improving that of bus users, we need to improve the condition of buses and behaviour of staff. Both of these could be achieved without having to build dividers bang in the middle of the lanes.
> Not political gimick but political issue. It is election time soon and
> anything that can be hammered on party in power is a good tool andTwo day
> old BRT is good enough for the opposite party. The problem is thatthere is
> no other affordable and yet least global warming solution thanpublic
> transport with BRT in place. Media could have shown restraint fora week
> atleast. If it takes a little more time than the time given by CM,then we
> can as well search for the baby which would have been thrown awaywith the
> bathwater!
There is nothig wrong is rasing a genuine issue and using it forelectoral gains. That is what democracy should be all about. I agree that may be these are more of teething trouble, but they have beenin place from before the baby was born.
> Imagine 500 km of functioning BRT as against 70 km of Metro. Thenetwork of
> BRT means that many good footpaths, cycleways and busways andproperly
> located safe road crossings and stopd for school buses and parapublic
> transits.
We should never put these two against each other. And secondly, repeating myself, We could have built all those footpaths, swanky SS bus shelters, cycleways, etc without having to eat away from the existing road space. Now the road cross section got eaten up from both the sides. And Bikes and Cars and of course the tempos, would ever be fighting for inches in that narrow lane to nowhere.
Regards
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
Friday, April 25, 2008
Latest DMRC map with Phase 2
Let us hope, after these changes the Vasundhara, Vaishali,Indirapuram alignment is taken for connecting Ghaziabad with Metro.As long as running parallel to exisiting NR network is concerned, Ialso think IRBT would be a more cost effective solution. Or evenexisting EMU services may be augmented to provide to Metro linkage atShahdara.The demography suited and inclined to pay for Metro ride andcommuting to Delhi, is available alongside this alignment as opposedto the existing NR corridor, population aolngside which is largelyworking out of Ghaziabad itself.I am sure DMRC would carry out a detailed potential ridership surveybefore finalising their alignment for Ghaziabad. This survey wouldhave to take into account the various factors like income profile,office locations, potential for population growth etc. of theproposed catchment areas for stations.Ease and Economics of implementation is another factor which wouldhave to be compared for these two options. I feel this comparisonwill be in favour of the Vasundhara, vaishali, Indirapuram alognment.I want to mention one more thing that, this alignment will also caterto the sectors-61,62,63,58 of NOIDA. Secotr 58 is a big industrialarea which house apart from regular industry, many a software firmsand lot of people commute from Delhi. Similarly, Sec-62 is aninsytitutional cum residential sector of size 4km x 4km. There are Nnumbers of big housing societies accommodating of large chunk ofmiddle-upper middle class, most of which commutes to Delhi for work.It also has quite a few technical education institutes.In short and repeat, Metro must touch the NH-24 Bypass somewhere nearthe Sector-62/Indirapuram stretch, while covering the areas likeVasundhara, Vaishali.
nsridhar74@y...> wrote:> Of these three, Ghaziabad seems to me to be the most promising,> but along the Vasundhara Enclave alignment rather than thecurrently> planned one along the Northern Railway line (where the IRBT wouldbe> much cheaper).>> In any case, going by the past record of DMRC, we can expect to see> many changes to this plan before the configuration is finalized.>>
Jun1, 2004
Keeping Fingers Crossed
Yesterday there was a news item in one of the Hindi Newspapers about tests to be carried out for different alternative connections with GZB. There were eight to ten locations based one different alignments. One of the locations was NH-24 Hapur Bypass.
This implies that the alignment along the NR corridor between Shahdara and GZB is not the final. DMRC is evaluatin different alignments as suggested in our earlier mails on the topic.
Lets us hope, the idea of parallel corridor is dropped and a new alignment is finalised covering the kaushambi, vaishali, vasundhara, Indirapuram layouts. tHis area is like dwaraka of GZB. Carries huge potential because of no or neglible public Transport despite large middle working class demography.
This implies that the alignment along the NR corridor between Shahdara and GZB is not the final. DMRC is evaluatin different alignments as suggested in our earlier mails on the topic.
Lets us hope, the idea of parallel corridor is dropped and a new alignment is finalised covering the kaushambi, vaishali, vasundhara, Indirapuram layouts. tHis area is like dwaraka of GZB. Carries huge potential because of no or neglible public Transport despite large middle working class demography.
Big Buses Big Problems?
Re: Big buses with Big problems!
I agree that Delhi roads have adequate space to take up the rush hourtraffic. But where is the lane sense?A couple of years ago I aobserved that buses, specially the DTC andKM scheme buses followed their lane. But not so now. At the bus stops they will park side by side, blocking the entire roads. They also don't hesitate from running in the middle and the rightmost lanes. Same is true for all the classes of drivers. Cars will not mind using the bus lanes whenever get chance. The slow mover will always stick to the rightmost lane. If you want to overtake him, u will have to do it from the left as the trudger won't budge. Even on the DND Toll Road, the slowmovers will keep trudging in the central lanes, where as it is deignated for overtaking. But now where there is a signboard for this education on the entire strech.
Same is true for the highway, which have central verge. The truckerwill take the central lane. If you want to overtake him honk. There lies the confusion. Some will let you pass from right and most will do i tfrom their left. So you keep jig jagging and risking yourself.
I strongly feel, going by my driving experience on "doubled"highways, that as long as the drivers are not educated of lanedriving, there is now use of buliding such good roads. For big ones to drive in the second lane, it has to be free from Cyclists, pedestrians, bullock carts and buggies. For that to happen you need access control. I am not sure abou the GQ and EW corridor. Are these access controlled?
May 25, 2004
I agree that Delhi roads have adequate space to take up the rush hourtraffic. But where is the lane sense?A couple of years ago I aobserved that buses, specially the DTC andKM scheme buses followed their lane. But not so now. At the bus stops they will park side by side, blocking the entire roads. They also don't hesitate from running in the middle and the rightmost lanes. Same is true for all the classes of drivers. Cars will not mind using the bus lanes whenever get chance. The slow mover will always stick to the rightmost lane. If you want to overtake him, u will have to do it from the left as the trudger won't budge. Even on the DND Toll Road, the slowmovers will keep trudging in the central lanes, where as it is deignated for overtaking. But now where there is a signboard for this education on the entire strech.
Same is true for the highway, which have central verge. The truckerwill take the central lane. If you want to overtake him honk. There lies the confusion. Some will let you pass from right and most will do i tfrom their left. So you keep jig jagging and risking yourself.
I strongly feel, going by my driving experience on "doubled"highways, that as long as the drivers are not educated of lanedriving, there is now use of buliding such good roads. For big ones to drive in the second lane, it has to be free from Cyclists, pedestrians, bullock carts and buggies. For that to happen you need access control. I am not sure abou the GQ and EW corridor. Are these access controlled?
May 25, 2004
My first post
Hi,
I am a new member of This group, though ai have been a member ofIRFCA for about a year. You are doing agreat job in sharing so much on the Delhi Metro.
I have read in newspapers that GDA and DMRC are considering the extension of Delhi Metro to Ghaziabad. In this regard, I wish to submit a humble suggestion. As per thei nformation I have, there is a proposal to extend Shahdara-ISBT line to Ghaziabad. Considering that there is already an EMU route available on thissection, I feel that this route will not be very productive. Moreover, the Demography of Catchment area of this route may not be very conducive to a profitable Metro Rider-ship figure.Whereas, in the vast trans-Hindon area of Kaushambi, Vasundhara and Indirapuram, where a huge population of White Collar Working Class resides which commutes to Delhi/NOIDA, there are no proper means ofpublic transport available. If Metro traverses through the above area, prospects of it operating in at least operational profits are very high. As per the existing plans, the Metro corridor will cross Hapur Bypass At Ganesh Nagar/Patparganj and proceed to Mayur Vihar, NOIDA. If a tangent is taken from this crossing and run on the GREEN BELT BESIDE the NH-24 Bypass upto Ghazibad City via Indirapuram, VijayNagar, it will cater to the huge catchment area of Kaushambi, Vaishali, Indirapuram. A link to the Yamuna Sports Complex can also be given from this line. What the grup feels of above?Ashish what do you say? As of now, your Vision 2021 maps does not cover Ghaziabad.
This was my first post to a very active group on urban transportation. The contention of this post was met and the Ghaziabad metro connection is take from Anand Vihar to Vaishali, which is likely to extend through Indirapuram also.
I am a new member of This group, though ai have been a member ofIRFCA for about a year. You are doing agreat job in sharing so much on the Delhi Metro.
I have read in newspapers that GDA and DMRC are considering the extension of Delhi Metro to Ghaziabad. In this regard, I wish to submit a humble suggestion. As per thei nformation I have, there is a proposal to extend Shahdara-ISBT line to Ghaziabad. Considering that there is already an EMU route available on thissection, I feel that this route will not be very productive. Moreover, the Demography of Catchment area of this route may not be very conducive to a profitable Metro Rider-ship figure.Whereas, in the vast trans-Hindon area of Kaushambi, Vasundhara and Indirapuram, where a huge population of White Collar Working Class resides which commutes to Delhi/NOIDA, there are no proper means ofpublic transport available. If Metro traverses through the above area, prospects of it operating in at least operational profits are very high. As per the existing plans, the Metro corridor will cross Hapur Bypass At Ganesh Nagar/Patparganj and proceed to Mayur Vihar, NOIDA. If a tangent is taken from this crossing and run on the GREEN BELT BESIDE the NH-24 Bypass upto Ghazibad City via Indirapuram, VijayNagar, it will cater to the huge catchment area of Kaushambi, Vaishali, Indirapuram. A link to the Yamuna Sports Complex can also be given from this line. What the grup feels of above?Ashish what do you say? As of now, your Vision 2021 maps does not cover Ghaziabad.
This was my first post to a very active group on urban transportation. The contention of this post was met and the Ghaziabad metro connection is take from Anand Vihar to Vaishali, which is likely to extend through Indirapuram also.
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